Authentic Jews

This may cause a bit of a kerfuffle, especially with the title, but it headed a very interesting email I got from a Muslim friend of mine, and the images shocked me. I wonder if I just was unaware myself, or does it shock you too?

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I did know that there are many Israeli citizens against the actions of the IDF, and that usually the most significantly attended protests are from those actually living in Israel/Jerusalem, I guess I just never pictured it properly. Upon first seeing them, I even considered whether or not they were fake.

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They are the Neturei Karta, the “Guardians of the City” in Aramaic, a term reserved for the scribes and scholars, who protect the city with knowledge rather than brute force. They have branched off from the Jews who supported the state of Israel because they believe it goes against the scriptures, faith and beliefs to try to pursue a ‘Jewish only’ state.

From their website:

Jews are not allowed to dominate, kill, harm or demean another people and are not allowed to have anything to do with the Zionist enterprise, their political meddling and their wars.

The true Jews remain faithful to Jewish belief and are not contaminated with Zionism.

The true Jews are against dispossessing the Arabs of their land and homes. According to the Torah, the land should be returned to them.”

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I’m not making any judgments on what is or isn’t Judaism, I just think its good to see that it is and can be separated from the conflict. Jews, Muslims, Christians, non-believers, other believers, ufo believers and nessie believers can all get behind the anti-Israel movement, because no matter what we do or don’t pray to at the end of the day, killing people is always wrong.

Happy Australia Day!

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14 Responses to “Authentic Jews”

  1. rayedish Says:

    I’ve heard of Jews against Israel before. I heard a radio program where a rabbi was separating Zionism from Judaism and explaining why as a scholar of the Torah he believed that the Jews had no right to return to Israel, and if I remember the program correctly these ‘anti-zion’ Jews have a presence in New York, among other places.

    “because no matter what we do or don’t pray to at the end of the day, killing people is always wrong” – top line and great sentiment LuLi. Happy Australia Day to you too.

  2. LuLi Says:

    These pics are from the New York ones, I think. I had heard of them, but I thought it would be more young radicals or something, not the actual Rabbis and scholars. Their website is pretty interesting.

    Thanks Rayedish, hope you have a good one..

  3. Reuben Says:

    That’s interesting. But it’s almost impossible to ignore the religious dimension of the conflict. I’m glad I’m an atheist.

  4. Marty Says:

    Israel has a right to exist.

    I’ll contradict myself by saying that there is no such thing as right to a land. If there was, we’d all get out so that the Aboriginals could have corroborees in Parliament House. There are 200ish nations in the world and pretty much all 200 were formed by one pushy set of people grabbing land from people there before them. Palestine is not a particular case.

    It must really hurt the Palestinians to be stateless, and I agree that they should also have a nation and I hope they get one.

    Nonetheless, after 2,000 years of wandering around in circles, I do not begrudge the Jews for finally having a home.

  5. Reuben Says:

    Marty makes a good point, but I would argue that the reason why Israel is causing so much outrage is because the moral zeitgeist nowadays is strong in condemning ‘right-to-land’ claims. Israel wouldn’t cause such a fuss had it existed a century earlier, I suspect.

  6. LuLi Says:

    Um, the wandering? The biblical wandering? What wandering? Are you referring to holocaust refugees from Germany, or is this a biblical argument, because as I remember resettlement had already occurred years ago, and across many different countries.

    Finders keepers is no longer legitimate law, and neither is genocide, and just because it was once accepted by Brits or whoever does not make it any less wrong now. Particularly the way they’ve gone about it, through terrorism, genocide and demolishing of houses. You’re saying that, should they choose to, if Israel decided to demolish your parents house, and perhaps a family member who was inside, despite you having lived there for years and paid for the place, and forcing you to live in a refugee camp without compensation, electricity or water, and then bombed it every couple of weeks, you would be ok with that because of the wandering?

  7. Marty Says:

    I would not be ok with it, but your stance is not simply against the Israeli terrorism but against the complete existence of Israel. Your stance is that the Jews can piss off and be minorites in someone else’s country until the end of time. Why is Israel illegal? It’s no more or less valid than the existence of Australia, also a country founded on stolen land.

  8. Reuben Says:

    I agree with Marty, once again. I’ll also add that it’s a lost cause trying to dissolve Israel as a sovereign state. They’ve existed for enough time for intergenerational cultural establishment to take place.

    I also have a problem with your analogy, Luli. The truth of the matter is, Israel is a country – not an illegal neighbor. A neighbour can be sent packing…but not a country. And whilst I don’t think the establishment of Israel as a religious state is acceptable, neither is the argument that they should just leave.

    It’s also mentionable that Israel as it exists now would certainly be more democratic than a newly-formed state of Palestine, supposing Hamas is in power. For one thing, it’s the only nation that doesn’t try to execute gays for being who they are; and whilst that’s no defense to Israel’s abhorrent attacks on Gaza, it’s certainly food for thought.

  9. Domino Says:

    I just found out that in term 3 or 4 we will be doing this conflict in Modern History. So I will soon be able to understand whats going on! On that note, happy Australia Day to you too.

  10. gullybogan Says:

    Marty: Australia isn’t founded on stolen land.

    The British fought the First Australians for the land, and the First Australians lost that war. The First Australians and their sympathisers are now fighting a History War over the matter, in the hope that semantics will somehow change things.

    Don’t fall for that “stolen land” nonsense. Many ppl on both sides died in that war of acquisition, and we do them a shocking disservice by ignoring the fact that it was a war, and pretending it was an act of theft.

  11. Marty Says:

    In my opinion taking a land via war or via paper-pushing behind the scenes is the same thing. Fighting to conquer a land is by definition stealing land. The Aboriginals didn’t extend an invitation for us to fight a war against them.

    I confess though that Israel arguments I make are generally more passionate than logical. While acknowledging Israeli crimes, I firmly believe in the cause of Israel and Zionism, which is an unfortunate clash since Palestine is LuLi’s number one passion.

  12. LuLi Says:

    The thing is, you can’t just sweep away the crimes by acknowledging them, like the Aboriginals and Kevin Rudds sorry. There is much more work to be done, but at least at the end of the day Australia has stopped killing Aboriginals and is kinda but not thoroughly enough attempting at righting the wrongs that have fucked up their culture, health and so on.

    Israel continues to murder, torture and persecute Palestinians.. How do you justify that? How can you say, oh thats a legitimate government, when it is based on terrorism, remains in power through terrorism, and pursues genocide via terrorism? Are you a big fan of Mugabe as well? Israel does nothing for Palestinians but kill and wound and starve them.

    As for my stance, its fucking bullshit that what was once Palestine is now two tiny areas of which they don’t even have proper control of. Its fucking bullshit that their land and homes and business were destroyed through massacres and terrorism. Its is disgusting that they are living like refugees and prisoners in their own homeland.

    Immigration is a different matter. Jews can migrate wherever they want peacefully, without an aggressive and blood thirsty occupation of land, and I would be perfectly happy with it.

    At the end of the day, I firmly disagree with Zionism, so theres not much point to argue for it here, Marty.

    Reuben, please identify the point in which I said they should just leave. That is an impossible and ridiculous option. They live there too now. However, they are an illegally created state, they break UN sanctions every day, and their theft of the land through the massacres is a big part of that. Hamas was democratically elected and is currently trying to stop terrorism. Israel is democratic and is currently pursuing more terrorism.. If the Israeli body count is infinitely bigger than that of Hamas, who then are the bad guys??

    I’m not impressed at all with this argument or the accusations that I am arguing for all jews to be minorities elsewhere, I think that was a bullshit thing to say and that both of you shouldn’t put words in people’s mouths, especially with touchy subjects like this.

    Domino, thats awesome, if you find any of this interesting then you will love it. It was my fav part of my history subject at school.

  13. Reuben Says:

    Just to clarify, I don’t think you’re arguments are based against Israel because they are Jews…and it always irritates me that people link anti-zionism to anti-semetism.

    I’m sorry if I misunderstood but from what I read, you were implying that they should leave – or so that analogy was. What sort of solution do you propose for the crisis?

  14. Miss Daphne Says:

    I’m reading this in the U.S. Just had to say ‘Thank You’. That last comment of your writing sums it up.

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